PERRY: Open season on open-carry critics proves how crazy some Colorado gun nuts really are

1. They say people carrying guns are the ones who are afraid? Holy smokes, you must live in constant fear if someone carrying a gun scares you so much. If you only knew the amount of training the average police officer or armed security guard has undergone in order to carry their weapon, you would never leave your house.

   1. Do you know? If you think security guards and sworn police officers are at the same level, you might want to check your facts. My reference point is the Los Angeles Police Academy which has a very advanced curriculum and training program. Perhaps cops in East Cupcake don’t get that level of training and then you might be right. Judging from some of what we’ve seen in the news via videotape in the last couple of years, some cops seem more like storm troopers than peace officers.

      1. Armed security guards and sworn police officers are not on the same level. I’m sure there are exceptions, but perhaps I made a mistake by lumping them in the same category.

         Still, I think it is safe to say that most (not all) sworn officers are not “gun guys” so they probably do not fire their weapons much more often than necessary to qualify. When you look at what is required for an armed security license, it is little more than a concealed weapon permit. Assuming most major departments have implemented a training program similar to this one (https://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/articles/1341567-12-critical-elements-of-a-modern-firearms-training-program/), this is not much different (other than transition to control and arrest techniques) than what is available to civilians. Let’s, for a minute, assume that the percentage of well-trained officers and well-trained regularly armed civilians is approximately equal, there is a far greater number of civilians with the skillset necessary to survive an armed confrontation.

         Believe me, I’m pro-police, but the training and practice that an average officer receives provides no reasonable basis on which to base a belief that they are less dangerous when armed than a civilian. In other words, the fear expressed by the author is totally irrational unless it is underlying basis is political.

         1. Enlighten me, Uncle K.
            https://www.ifyouonlynews.com/guns/responsible-florida-gun-owner-drops-weapon-on-cracker-barrel-floor-shoots-three-people/

            1. Here is the results of 2 minutes on google.

               https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2824190/Schoolgirl-7-suffers-facial-injury-armed-police-officer-accidentally-fires-gun-demonstration-young-colouring-competition-winners.html

               https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Police+Officer+Accidentally+Fires+Gun+Injuries&qpvt=police+officer+accidentally+fires+gun+injures&FORM=EWRE

               https://wavy.com/2015/11/05/accidental-shooting-at-academi-training-center-in-moyock/

               https://myinforms.com/en/a/16042142-no-injuries-after-security-officers-gun-accidentally-fires/

               Should I post more?

               To be fair, the guy in the article you posted was an idiot because I guarantee you he tried to catch a dropped gun.

            2. Modern firearms don’t just “go off” when dropped, unless they’ve been modified by someone who has no clue what they’re doing. I agree with Uncle K, he likely tried to catch the gun as it fell and grabbed a finger full of trigger in the process.

            3. Tell that to these folks (just a sample from recent months):

               https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-20/oklahoma-man-at-muslim-free-gun-store-accidentally-shoots/6711768

               https://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/23/1437874/-Texas-woman-with-a-concealed-gun-accidentally-shoots-a-patient-in-her-doctor-s-office#

               https://www.guns.com/2015/11/02/man-drops-gun-at-cracker-barrel-shoots-patron-video/

            4. Modern firearms don’t just go off unless defective damaged or modified none of your aforementioned links even mention the model of weapon so Brett’s point still stands

            5. I’m not sure what your or Brett’s point is, ultimately. You aren’t suggesting people be required to turn in outdated, modified or improperly maintained weapons, are you? People visibly have guns that go off by accident a lot.

            6. My point is that people need to be held accountable for their actions. Perpetuating the myth that guns just go off when dropped is ignorant. If you modify a firearm to an unsafe condition, and someone get hurt because of it, then you need to be held liable for that. If the firearm has a manufacturing defect and someone gets hurt because of that, the manufacturer needs to be held accountable for that. Most “accidental discharges” are actually negligent discharges, because a person did something incorrectly. Unsafe, defective, or “outdated” guns should not be used for concealed carry. Unsafe or defective guns should be repaired by a licensed gun smith or destroyed. “Outdated” guns are fine to keep in your collection, but don’t carry them for defense, you’re just asking for trouble. The bottom line is that a modern, properly functioning, semi-auto handgun, in a proper holster, effectively has 0 chance of firing without a person pulling the trigger.

            7. Thanks for the clarifications. My bottom line is that neither common sense nor civic responsibility is keeping people from doing foolhardy things with guns day after day. Irresponsible people are everywhere, but when they have guns they do more damage. Which is why I side with the writer here, thinking it’s foolish to encourage folks to walk around town with a rifle. My point of view, I guess you disagree, so let’s leave it at that.

            8. However it happened, it did. So why the conjecture? If you knew, or I knew, what could we do about it? And there is nothing that happens again, or again. Maybe similar, or like, or because of, but that is Murphy’s Law after all. Just like the numb nuts who called Fox News and they discussed 911 call of Colorado Springs, as to “Did the police do all they could to save lives? Are they dense, that FBI or DOJ investigation would prove anything? Or is that the first actions in this administration? Not picking on you or others on here. Just 24/7/365 news coverage, is a mistake. NEWS, AND ONLY THE NEWS. AND MOVE ON.

            9. So Sanford Florida has reporter like Dave Perry, who has a fear of guns, and writes a twisty article, inferring NRA are wrong. He forgets all the folks in USA who own guns (many with more than one gun) and also this president and cabinet he selected, have led to the purchase of more guns, than any other president we ever had before. (And before anyone questions, I did not do a survey, or find one recently to change my mind). If anyone disputes that, please also explain why we have become bigots, racists, prejudiced, non-Christian, non-family, with gays and lesbians allowed to force other people out of their jobs, assets, and place them in fear of losing home, or having their children taken away from them.
               I never would have believed one man’s policies could turn our country from a thriving, improving economy, with everyone working that wanted to, into a government dependent welfare country, with more on the dole, than working. And then importing folks from all over the world, to share our benefit, assets, and destroy our homes.
               So there is a lot to enlighten everyone, as I see too many that now are slaves to the job they have, not knowing if they could get another one. And you wonder why a guy takes AR15, 2 hand guns, and starts shooting up the streets. HELLO. HE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE OUT THERE, AS WE SEE EVERY NIGHT AND DAY ON OUR NEWS PROGRAMS.
               Just wait until the 200,000 (?) more refugees, majority of fighting age males, come to USA, to join those already here, and knives also become very popular in surprise attacks (See England, France, and Israel) and also Australia. Dave and Jon Prager in Sanford will go out of their minds.

            10. Ban guns.

            11. Ban demokraps and reduce violence by 87%

            12. No one pulled the trigger. Guns kill people and people who are irresponsible own them.

                Your spiel is of no import……to be fair.

            13. WOW, that took a lot of illicit narcotics abuse to spew that irrelevent drivel

            14. Thank you.

            15. Proud of her drug abuse….

            16. His. I don’t use illicit drugs. Thanks though.

            17. So this guy took those guns and used them. How many now own guns with little or no experience, other then a quick briefing, and firing off few rounds to prove they knew the mechanics. Father taught me to shoot at 13, with single shot 22 rifle. Took my brother to a different woods, on property we controlled, until it was stripped by coal company. Taught him as 11 with 2nd 22caliber single shot.
                Left us in woods to squirrel hunt, with a few loose bullets. I learned accuracy, with head shots, and outthinking the squirrel. At 16, I walked into hardware store in Romney WV, bought 8 mm, Belgium Radome – Mauser action, military rifle for $8.00. And think box of 20 rounds was another $1.25 or $1.50. No paperwork, no ID, just paid, walked out and up street to Uncle’s house. Visiting for the week, family returned to Ohio. I still own that rifle, though I sent it to Calif with my oldest son. Paying $8.00, that rifle is listed for about $4,000 to collectors, since all numbers match, where Belgiums used parts from 1934 and 1936, to produce 1935 weapon.
                In basic training at Lackland in 1950, I fired EXPERT, with no practice as my flight had, since I had been volunteered for another duty, through out my basic period.
                I handled weapons for 26 years, qualifying every year, and I saw ‘accidents’ happen.
                DON’T KNOW WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE IS, BUT EVEN EXPERTS MAKE MISTAKES. Have you not seen professional workers in furniture factories, or carpenters, with missing fingers, or the man with hammer who hits finger. Don’t get too full of yourself, and find fault with others, when you don’t know the details, what else was happening, and YOU HAVE NO RESPONSIBLITY TO CORRECT IT.
                And always remember, anything that happens, can have something similar happen, but the particular problem will never happen again. That one is done, except getting the ones hit by fragments, need to heal. At 86 (this month) I am tired of THE HOLIER THAN THOU TYPES.

            18. Guns kill people and people who are irresponsible own them.
                “Cars kill people and people who are irresponsible own them.”

            19. Can you drive your gun to work? Your argument is old, tired and irrelevant, just as this entire conversation is.

            20. Can you drive your gun to work?

                Can you pull the stick out of your ass?

                Your argument is old, tired and irrelevant, just as this entire conversation is.

                Hoplophobes gonna hoplophobe.

            21. I bought a gun this morning. My IQ went up 5 points. I’ll be purchasing however many it takes to get me to 75.

            22. Finally someone willing to call out the Bush adminstration for the harm they’ve done. The good news is that we’re now in the middle of a 7-year-long economic recovery and, thanks to the current Republican in the White House (aka Obama), we’ve got more guns and cheap oil than we ever had under Reagan or Bush. 🙂

            23. You, sir, are a moron.

            24. That is about the dumbest remark (reply) I have seen on any website. You have to be common core educated. We did NOT HAVE the communications then, that we have now. We did not have all the sidewalk chalk writers to complain, gripe and run in circles. I served in military 1950 to 1976, and we worked with manual typewriters.
                When will you and others realize everyone in life who is doing something and mistakes will be made. That happens when you work with what you have. And for 26 years that I served from farm boy in ohio, to pioneering satellite communications in 1970-1976, closely followed by civilian world, we went through the citizens band radio, with was contaminated by profanity, and prostitutes talking to truck drivers driving on highways.
                Osama Bin Laden declared war on USA and developed countries, And our money, buying energy for middle east, financed that. So Americans contributed to injuring and killing our people. Remember the shale developing in Colorado, and all the opposition. They were on their way to learning about extracting oil, gas, and coal from the shale layers under ground. And that was shut down by green party, EPA types then.
                Actually Fracking has been going on since before Civil War, using nitro-glycerine in vertical wells. Then after civil war, they used explosives developed during the war. Our hills in Ohio was covered with wells, extracting oil and rutting the streets long before you and I was born. So look at History, and see who else made mistakes.
                There will not be enough books written about this president to list all his mistakes. Quit blaming Bush.
                NOW IS NOW, BE MORE REFLECTIVE ON WHAT IS NOW, AND IN THE FUTURE. WE NEED TO RECOVER, AND GET THE REAL ECONOMIC BOOKS INTO THE OPEN.

            25. Read some of your other posts just now. Cannot resist following comment: Obama has been calling out the Bush, Reagan-Bush (not in order) for 7 years, blaming them for everything he has to do with Executive Orders and Executive Memorandums. Reid and Pelosi abrogated their authority to the Executive Branch, and I would not call last 7 years as recovery, with 10 Trillion added to National Debt. And he turned whole planet earth back to 4th century, by withdrawing troops and advertising it, letting all the terrorist groups-organizations to fill the vacuum. Not to mention ISIS now, and they sent message to Russia.
                Doubt Putin will have same fundraising trip, or go play golf after this. FDR prolonged depression through the 1930s, (I was in school then) and only start of WWII brought USA out of it. Do we need another WW to get out of the past 7 years?

            26. Sat 1:22PM- I went off on rant this morning, early. Had not seen the videos and probably what you were referring too. George Will has been riding high as “in the estabablishment” authenticity of being critical of others. Today he tangled with the wrong guy. Bill O’Reilly for his books and videos, proves beyond doubt to have more valid researchers, and investigators. Same as Russ Limbaugh. Both have been on television and radio long time, and have not been really dented in all those years.
                Russ got dinged on, but survived with the drug charges after surgery. But his validity of statements have not been disproved by valid critics. Same goes for O’Reilly, though I get very upset with him and Hannity and Kelly, when they talk through and over their guests, NEW YORK STYLE. Trump does that now, but employees and others who are involved with him report that is not the real Donald Trump. That is the one who is throwing proverbial sand into eyes of the wannabes.
                I respect Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, and several others who made tough decisions, and mistakes. But those mistakes were by productive people, who did what they did with what they knew at the time.
                That is not true with present occupant of Oval Office. He ignores advice for people who know, and fires them. Surrounds himself with others, as inept as himself, who do not recognize their faults. And we, outside the beltway are not going to take that any more.
                Please accept my apology for going off on rant, before I learned what I think you were referring too.

            27. ECONOMIC RECOVERY ROTFLMFAO, MCDONALDS JOBS IS AN ECONOMIC RECOVERY BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…I needed a good belly laugh, thanks for your improv, you should be writing for Saturday night live, they need insane people writing for them again……

            28. so whats your definition of an economic recovery

            29. One where the number of people who are no longer on the unemployment rolls because their unemployment benefits ran out find a job, which is a hell of a lot more than the BS administration lies..

                One were the middle class pay scale hasn’t been stagnant for nearly a decade…

                See moron, the semi trailer industry gets large orders for new trailers 12-18 months before a sustained economic recovery. Since 70% of our goods are transported via semi trailer….maybe you can point out which of the semi trailer manufacturers like Great Dane Wabash National etc etc have had a large order since before 2008…whoops not one, darn how reality sucks for you…

            30. The current economy

            31. Bush? You frickin’ moronic lib-tard. Come to the party! This is 2015, and yobama has been in charge for 7 long, miserable years

            32. Republican arent ya

         2. I was a Military Police SRT Marksman in the Army (same thing as a SWAT sniper in the civilian world) and have worked extensively with civilian LEO’s, the vast majority of civilian LEO’s have extremely poor firearms training. They receive 1 to 2 weeks of training, in a classroom environment, at the academy and then fire their weapons once, maybe twice, per year for their qualifications. The military also has poor firearms training, even for MP’s, until you get to the SRT level or are about to deploy to a war zone. You get about a week of training on the M16, now the M4, then you spend about 2 days at the range to qualify. After that you’ll do an annual qualification, if you’re lucky and there isn’t an ammunition shortage. MP’s, and other MOS’s authorized to carry pistols, get about an additional week of handgun training on the M9 and then spend 1-2 days at the range. Then you’ll shoot once per year for annual qualifications. The training I’ve seen available in the civilian world, to private citizens, is about on par with the initial SRT training I attended. So in effect, trained concealed carriers are better prepared to defend themselves, and others, than the majority of civilian LEO’s.

            1. our police have quarterly qualification. dont know about your service but it sounds suspicious

            2. Look up the regs for the Military Police if you don’t believe me. In fact, just look at appendix C here: https://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/fm3_23x35.pdf

               Every civilian department has their own SOP for training requirements, but I don’t know of any that qualify quarterly.

               As far as proof of my service goes, here ya go:

               https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/t31.0-8/12189402_10203808640931415_4185299891037333763_o.jpg

               https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/12195103_10203808640971416_4038376157929097244_o.jpg

               https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/10582856_10201623736910180_36516516279814260_o.jpg

         3. That’s IF your assertion that the number of “well-trained” civilians being equal to the number of well-trained cops is true. Do you have any documentation from a REPUTABLE source (I.e., not Faux, NRA, or Breitbart) to show this? While we’re at it, do you have any documentation of a “good guy with a gun” — other than police or military — successfully intervening in a mass shooting? There was one about 30 years ago, but anything since? Again, factual proof, not NRA fantasizing or Faux propaganda or anecdotal

            1. Try reading “The Armed Citizen” prior to spouting your ignorance. And, while you are at it Show us all where the NRA has been fostering false information. Good luck!

            2. 1,080 deaths/injuries in 65 gun free zone mass shootings since 1982 avg. 16.615 per incident Google Mother
               Jones Mass shootings as they surprisingly have the details!

               75 deaths/injuries in 32 incidents in gun free zones since 1991 where armed self defense occurred, avg. 2.43 per incident!

               12/17/91 Shoneys Alliston AL

               10/1/97 Pearl High Pearl MS

               4/24/98 Edinsborough PA

               1/16/02 Appalachian Law School VA

               11/20/05 Tacoma WA

               2/12/07 Trolley Mall UT

               12/9/07 New Life Springs CO

               6/6/08 Winnemuca NV

               1/25/08 Makor High School, Jerusalem

               6/11/09 Holocaust Memorial D.C.

               5/4/09 College Station GA

               6/11/09 Golden Market Richmond VA

               1/4/10 Federal Court House Las Vegas NV
               
5/27/10 AT&T store New York Mills NY

               8/7/10 The Wall Jerusalem 

               8/30/10 Sullivan High TN

               2/28/12 Colorado Springs CO, Urological Associates office
               4/24/12 New Destiny Church Aurora CO

               8/15/12 Family Research Council D.C.

               12/11/12 Clackamas Mall OR

               12/19/12 San Antonio TX

               1/1/13 NightClub Sacramento CA

               1/31/13 Middle School Atlanta GA

               2/1/13 High School Detroit MI

               10/20/13 Party-Glendale AZ
               12/13/13 Arapahoe HIghSchool CO
               1/11/14 Portland OR Strip Club
               5/1/2014 Austin TX Construction Yard
               6/3/14 Reynolds High School Troutdale Oregon
               6/14/14 East Peoria IL High School Reunion
               7/25/14 Darby PA Mercy Fitzgerald Wellness center
               11/16/14 Club Khaos, Elpaso TX

               30 plus years trying it the anti gun nuts way isn’t working, and armed self defense had it occurred in those 65 gun free zone incidents where no defense occurred, could have prevented up to 893 deaths/injuries!

               16.615/2.34 = 7.1 times more people killed in a mass shooting where no armed resistance occurs!

               We challenge the anti gun nuts to go to the families of those 1,080 victims, look them in they eye, and say you supported disarming their family members when the data clearly shows armed self defense could have saved up to 893 people from being injured!

               My money bet is they don’t make it out of the 3rd home before being re-educated Gulag style!

            3. Well trained civilians:

               https://www.va.gov/vetdata/veteran_population.asp

               My guess, somewhere near 50 million.

               Good guys with a gun:
               https://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/01/police-concealed-carry-license-holder-kills-armed-gunman/
               https://www.wgal.com/news/two-men-shot-killed-during-armed-robbery/36191528
               https://www.guns.com/2015/10/29/suspect-shot-while-robbing-delivery-driver-of-pizzas-cash/
               https://www.abc2news.com/news/crime-checker/baltimore-city-crime/armed-bar-employee-shoots-robber

               For a better and much longer list, scroll down near the bottom:
               https://www.keepandbeararms.com/

               Next?

         4. Police are civilians.

         5. you apparently have no clue regarding police training

            1. I agree with you on some things, but having served 26 years in military, I qualified every year on range. But targets were not shooting back at me, and data from WWI and WWII was that 70% of the military shooters could not hit a target, or man. Whole lot of difference with the target has a gun, and in many cases larger caliber than you have.
               Reason automatic rifles were invented, and gatling guns were so effective. Just meant more folks had to be in support to keep ammo to the ones who charged the hills, or did the shooting.
               And obviously that is same for anyone, police or watch guard, first time they have to shoot at humans. Or even at rabid dog, wolf, bear, or whatever.

            2. Also about that time, the Army guy came to 94th Fly.Trng.Sq. to talk to me about transferring to Army from Air Force, go through OCS, and a Platoon Lieutenant in Korea life expectancy was about 17 seconds in a firefight. I declined, being a Sergeant by then, and lived to be promoted, married, and live to be 86 this month. Think that was a very smart move on my part. My brother was in Korea, on Heartbreak Ridge, and Bloody Ridge (about 44 day period) and had been left for dead, twice. 2nd time they took to medic, air-vac him to Japan to hospital, where he recovered, and was jeep driver-courier at hospital until returning to states at end of 2 years, and discharged. Died few years ago at 75, of diabetes, stroke, and had gangrene of right leg, amputated just below knee, and problems of metal working out of his body all his life. Very small, sharp pieces. NOT GOOD FOR HIM.

      2. My reference point is the Los Angeles Police Academy which has a very advanced curriculum and training program.

         You mean the same goombas that unloaded 30 rounds into the truck of a woman and her daughter delivering newspapers during the Dorner manhunt?

         1. LAPD has over 10,000 police officers. Are all of them perfect? Skip the sensational crap and stick to the point.

            1. Blasting a truck that was an entirely different model and color of the one Dorner was driving renders your point rather useless.

            2. In the dark of day, and truck bearing down on you, have you ever heard of “buck fever”. Happens to experienced hunters. and especially so if a wolf or bear is coming at you. Danger is something to be avoided, if possible.

         2. If you had been policeman there, you would have crapped your pants, and put 60 rounds into them, if you had not suffered blocked mind, and cranked all rounds out on the ground. Happens to hunters, and deer do not shoot back.

      3. Funny you mention the LAPD. Here are bunch of ordinary folks passing the LAPD qualification:

         https://www.guns.com/2012/10/12/debunking-the-lapds-handgun-qualification-myth/

         Most police officers are not that proficient. They have to chose to train beyond qualification to become good. It is irrational for you to fear average folks but not police officers.

   2. So, we should wait until the shooting starts and hope that maybe someone with a gun will actually step in to help. Unfortunately, there have been precious few instances where that has actually happened. Usually, someone with a gun realises that they would make the situation worse as happened at Umpqua.
      I would also add that the police dispatcher made it clear in the Colorado Springs shooting that someone walking around with a gun wasn’t a priority (first tape at 2:49). The reality is not that it is fear, but prudence that someone should call the police if they see someone carrying a weapon in public. Let the police deal with it. Unless, you, and others like you. wish to try to be a hero, Uncle K.

      1. There is a fine line between harassment and a reasonable welfare check/man with a gun call. Hindsight is always 20/20. What if the police had contacted him and then released him because he had not done anything wrong? There are a lot of what-if’s.

         Also, nobody in their right mind wants to be a hero. I am not a police officer or any other position where it would be my duty to intervene. The single exception would be if my family or I were threatened with immediate bodily harm. That is where the distinction lies. Nobody should be forced to carry a gun. However, those that wish to take responsibility for their own safety should not be denied the ability to do so.

         And way to upvote your own post. Classy.

         1. “What if the police had contacted him and then released him because he had not done anything wrong?”
            A contact is asking the guy how he is doing. If he looked distraught (as the 911 caller described him) that would be reasonable suspicion to detain him. If he was carrying the rifle at the ready (in his hands and not shouldered) that would be brandishing which is against the law. The police did not respond because they were tied up with a life threatening call; perhaps more police are needed. The shooter was able to kill so many because no one in the area fulfilled their duty to protect themselves.

      2. “So, we should wait until the shooting starts and hope that maybe someone with a gun will actually step in to help?”

         Nope. You should get help for the mental health issues you’re having right away. Don’t wait. The reality is that your irrational fear doesn’t trump other people’s rights.

      3. So following your logic I may report someone that is driving down the road, because for all I know he might get drunk and continue driving?

      4. The reason that there are so few people armed at mass shooting is that mass shootings typically occur in gun free zones set up by people like you. The only people carrying weapons in these areas are off duty cops or criminals. I believe the person carrying a weapon at UCC in violation of school policy) was prevented by staff from coming to the aid of those being shot. Liberal logic.

   3. Police officers are trained, but they get taken out on a regular basis. Security guards in open carry states often get just 2-3 hours of training. But those examples are neither here nor there – the writer is talking about untrained civilians, who only have to meet one requirement: they it’s gave the money to but a gun. As usual, the gun nuts use deflection to get sound the fact that the truth is not on their side.

      1. You and the writer are both full of BS. Civilian police are not well trained.

         1. I’m not saying WELL trained, I’m saying trained in comparison to untrained civilians. Most coops these days do 3-5 days at a range, including safety, handling, marksmanship, etc, with pistol, rifle and shotgun. Nothing compared to what the military gets, but a lot more than the average open-carry Bubba.

            1. It’s obvious you have never observed civilian police at the range, 3-5 days is nothing, definitely lack training and marksmanship . While the average Joe here will spend at least one day a week and expend at least 500 rounds a month. That’s why you never see civilian cops in serious competive shooting. Yep we let the cops shoot at our range once a month, we call it comedy hour.

            2. Our academy class was there for eighty hours. How much police experience do you have, other than watching reruns of Adam-12?

            3. 24 years Military Police/light Infantry U S Army Retired. Qualified .45 1911A1, M1, M14,M16, Browning .30 Cal MG, Browning .50 MG, M60 MG, M79&203, Infantry School Ft Benning, MP Supervisors Course ,Ft Gordon, MP AdvancedCourse Ft Gordon.

               You are nothing but a little league player.

            4. Well, then, in that case, we’re done here. Have a nice life, Rambo

            5. You forgot little league player that this community consists of retired military, active duty military, veterans of five conflicts, hosts at least five active gun clubs, plus active shooting competitions, and a public range that is the best in the state and five active military installations in this county alone.. Research prior to posting and you might not make a fool of yourself.

            6. Speaking of armed self defense, we see that 40% of incidents occur outside the home so the CDC data adding in outside attacks prove near 1 million defnesive gun uses a year, just
               with GOVT. DATA…

               Google some of the many websites that collate the media &
               police incident reports of defensive gun uses, and danr how 75% of the incidents, arent repeated on the other sites, ROTFLMFAO…

               https://bearingarms.com/category/guns-saving-lives/
               https://www.easybakegunclub.com
               defensivecarry.com
               https://www.americanrifleman.org/the-armed-citizen/
               thehighroad.org
               usconcealedcarry.com
               the firingline,com
               https://keepandbeararms.com

               https://www.cato.org/guns-and-self-defense
               https://www.gunowners.org/self-defense-corner/
               https://gunssavelives.net/category/self-defense/

               It is just horrible how law abiding gun owners defend themselves without asking permission first, and are so successful at doing so…

               The following are from just ONE of many web sites collating the DGU’s, Gunssavelive.net..

               Feb 2012 to Oct 2015
               1,142 Total Incidents

               3,244 Total People Defended

               1,829 Total attackers

               11 Attacked in car

               231 Attacked at Business

               716 Attacked at Home

               172 Attacked Other
               
62.7% % of attacks at home

               2.5295 Avg attackers when more than
               61.3% % of incidents 1 attacker

               38.7% % of incidents more than 1 attacker

               62.3% % of bad guys armed

               712 # of Attacks bad guy armed

               430 # of Attacks bad guys unarmed

               176 Women defending themselves

               15.41% % of DGU’s women successfully defending themselves

            7. Hey, lets review how many mass shootings in gun free paradises we have eh!

               Location Number killed Date



               Garissa University Kenya 147 4/2/2015
               Pakistan Military school 142 12/15/14
               Norway attacks 77 7/22/2011

               Westgate Mall, Nairobi Kenya 67 9/21/2013

               Grozny Chechnya 60 2/5/2000
               Gyeongsagnam-do, South Korea 57 4/27/1982

               Agricultural College, Potiskum Nigeria 50 9/29/2013

               Boipatong S Africa 45 6/17/1992
               Ayotzinapa teaching college, Iguala Mexico 43 September 26, 2014
               Yobe State Boarding School Nigeria 42 2/25/14
               Port Aurthur, Australia 35 4/28/1996
               Marikana S Africa 34 8/16/2012
               VA Tech 33 4/16/2007

               Cave of the Patriarchs, Hebron Israel 29 2/24/1994

               Bisho, Ciskei, S Africa 29 7/9/1992
               Sandy Hook 28 12/14/2012

               Tunisia 28 6/26/15
               Offa, Karwa Nigeria 26 12/21/2013
               Mubi Adamawa Nigeria 25 10/3/2012
               Luby’s Cafeteria 24 10/16/1991

               San Ysidro Massacre 22 7/18/1984
               Tunis Tunisia 21 3/18/2015
               Igbo Town Hall meeting Adamawa Nigeria 20 
1/7/2012
               Baluchistan Pakistan 20 04/11/2015
               Johannesburg S Africa 19 3/28/1994
               Dunblane, Scotland 18 3/13/1996

               Erfurt, Germany 18 4/26/2002

               Trincomalee Sri Lanka 17 8/4/2006
               Hungerford, UK 17 8/19/1987

               Cuers, France 17 Sep-95

               Kandahar, Afghanistan 16 3/11/2012

               Texas Tower Sniper 16 8/1/1966

               Winnenden, Germany 16 3/11/2009

               Ecole Polytechnique, Montreal 15 12/6/1989

               Columbine High 15 4/20/1999

               Edmond, OK 15 8/20/1986

               Zug, Switzerland 15 9/27/2001

               Aramoana, New Zealand 14 11/13/1990

               Binghampton, NY 14 4/3/2009
               
Luxiol, France 14 Jul-89

               Fort Hood 13 11/5/2009

               Cumbria, England 13 6/2/2010

               Buenos Aires Argentina 13 6/20/1973
               Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 13 4/7/2011
               Velika Ivanca, Serbia 13, 4/8/2013
               Allaipiddy Sri Lanka 13 5/13/2006
               Bamako, Mali 12 8/8/2015
               Aurora, CO 12 7/20/2012

               Azerbaijan State Oil Academy 12 4/30/2009

               Paris France 12 1/7/2015
               Emsdetten Germany 11 11/6/2006
               Cologne Germany 11 6/11/1964
               Cape Town SAfrica 11 7/25/1993
               Chassarda Pakistan 10 4/5/2015
               McClendon, AL 10 3/10/2009

               Kauhajoki, Finland 10 9/23/2008

               GMAC, FL 10 6/18/1990
               
Red Lake, MN 10 3/21/2005

               Adelaide, Australia 10 9/6/1991
               Lyon France 10, 3/19/2009

               Nanterre France 9 2/27/2002
               Port Harcourt Nigeria 9 4/4/2015
               Jerusalem, Israel 9 6/6/2008
               Maiduguri, Nigeria 9 6/8/2013
               Tatarstan Russia 9 5/4/1992
               Uhersky Brod Czechozlovakia 9 2/24/15
               Seapoint S Africa 9 1/20/2003
               Murisuvil Sri Lanka 8 12/20/2000
               Toulouse/Mounteban, France 8 3/11/12 to 3/21/12
               Mor Hungary 8 5/9/2002
               Edmonton Canada 8 12/30/14
               Sana’a, Yemen 8 3/30/1997
               Auchi Nigeria 7 11/27/2012
               Tuusula Finland 7 11/7/2007
               Naples Italy 7 9/18/2009
               Turin Italy 7 10/15/2002
               Gomarankadawala Sri Lanka 6 4/23/2006
               Alphen aan den Rijn Netherlands 6 4/9/2011
               Pesalai Sri Lanka 6 6/17/2006
               Belgorod Russia 6 4/22/2013
               Moscow Russia 6 12/11/2012
               Berlin Switzerland 5 5/10/2015
               Touluse France 5 3/19/2012
               Moscow Russia 5 11/7/ 2012
               Moscow oblast 5 12/4/2013
               Gangwon Province S Korea 5 6/21/14
               Brussels Belgium 4 5/27/2014
               Tours France 4 10/29/2001
               Espoo Finland 4 12/31/2009
               Carmen de Patagones, Argentina 4 9/28/2004
               Beirut, Lebanon 4 1/25/2007
               GROSSPRIEL, Austria 4 9/18/2013
               Balashinka Russia 4 4/23/2007 (home made pistol)
               Bamrungsart Pondock Scool Thailand 3 Mar 18, 2007
               Aarhus Denmark 3 4/5/1994
               Liege Belgium 3 12/13/2011
               Rotterdam Netherlands 3 4/11/2009
               Freising Germany 3 2/19/2002
               Geneva Switzerland 3 2/17/2013
               Daillon Switzerland 3 1/3/2013
               SeeJong City S Korea 3 2/25/15
               Gothenburg Sweden 2 3/19/2015
               Dawson College shooting, Quebec Canada 2 9/13/2006
               Café shooting Sydney Australia 2 12/15/14
               Bucharest Romania 2 3/5/2012
               Montessori Daycare Quebec Canada 1, April 15, 2013
               W. R. Myers High School in Taber, Alberta, Canada 1 April 28, 1999

               The world 1,483 dead in 95 incidents = 15.61 dead per

               The US 176 dead in 11 incidents = 16 dead per

               Funny how this is only the tip of the iceberg for all those mass shootings in all those gun ban paradises eh!

               If we included all the mass attacks in those gun ban paradises
               where guns were not used…..its rather frightening how VIOLENT those gun ban paradises truly are…….

               Based on you anti gunterds claims guns are the root cause of violence, and those countries have 1/7th the number of guns we do, then why aren’t your incidents and deaths not 1/7th of the US eh MORONS?

               A quick perusal by even the most numerically challenged shows that the US only has 3 of the top 25 shootings. And out of the top 36 we only account for 11 incidents and 17.3% of the dead.

            8. And what does the Constitution of the United States have to do with other countries? Nice try at deflection, dude.

            9. What does gun control laws that fail in all other countries have to do with the gun control failure in the US eh tweedle dumb….go get a brain and come back

            10. Never served in the military did you.

                I was an Air Force Security Policeman for nearly 13 years, and carried an actual loaded M16 nearly every day. I got 1 day (4 to 6 hours) of training twice a year in the use of my firearm. Most military members get less training (2-4 hours) once a year, if that. Many get none.

                On the other hand, the average “open-carry Bubba” seeks out training, competes with their weapon in actual competitions, and spends more time on the range in a single year than I did in my entire 13 years in the military. To be fair, some dont do all of that, but many do. So your average “open-carry Bubba” gets more range time and more training than most police or military members do.

                Facts are cool, I bet you wish you had some.

      2. Then you should have thousands of examples to back up your BS, we are waiting loser…

   4. I never understood the whole, “you must be afraid of everything if you think you need to carry a gun” thing. I always ask those people if they are scared they are going to get into a car accident anytime they drive somewhere. If they say no, I ask them why they put a seatbelt on.

      1. It’s a law.

         1. So you’re saying if it wasn’t a law, you wouldn’t feel any need to wear a seatbelt?

            1. No, I didn’t say that in the least. If it were in the car, not required by law to wear, yes, I would wear it. They started with them in 1968.

               I wear safety gear that is offered for any mode of transportation that I use.
               Avid mountain biker of 30 years till two years ago. Always wore a helmet, I still have two in my garage, although I do not own a bike any longer, and I always wore gloves with palm padding in case of a fall.

               I don’t see how my OP tells you anything other than seatbelt use is mandatory.

            2. Im sorry if I misunderstood your responce. The question i asked is why do you wear a seatbelt? And the respoce i saw was, because its a law. I infered that the responce ment that you wear a seatbelt because it’s a law. From your last responce, I gather that one of the reasons you wear a seatbelt is becasue its a law, but that’s not the main reason you wear one.

               My point is that having a law that you need to put on your seatbelt does not effect my argument. Even if it wasn’t a law, people would still wear seatbelts. Not because they are paranoid and scared that they will get into an accident, but because it will increase the odds of walking away with less injury in the rare case that they do get into an accident.

               That is the same reason that I and many, many others carry a firearm. Not because we are afraid we are going to be attacked, but because in the rare case that we are, it will increase our odds of walking away without injury and with all of our possessions.

               A seatbelt doesn’t guarantee your safety in an accident just like a firearm doesn’t guarantee your safety in an attack. And yes, there is a possibility that your gun could be taken and used against you, but there have also been plenty of cases where seatbelts have cause more severe injuries or death. Nothing in this life is guaranteed, but there are things we can do to improve our odds. Not everyone is comfortable doing everything though. I’m perfectly fine with people who don’t want to carry a firearm, but don’t take my right to do it away from me.

            3. Good for you. I’m glad you’re happy.

               My original response was “It’s a law.” I didn’t add ‘because.’

2. Please, seek treatment for your phobia. Seriously.

   Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why police carry guns?

   FYI, it is not to protect you.

3. we carry openly not just “because we can”, but because it’s the law. My sympathy if that scares you, but I am not responsible for the acts of lunatic, who would have done the same thing in CO regardless of the legality of open carry.

   1. you do it because it’s the law (IE…you CAN). you don’t think it’s kinda nuts to think you need a gun to go down to the gas station or buy groceries? How often have you carried and thought “gee…I’m SO glad I had the gun with me, I really needed it today” I don’t think you’ve ever had to…mean while, everyone else is wondering if you’re having a bad day and going to open up and shoot people.

      1. Four times. That’s how many times I’ve used a legally carried handgun in the United States to save lives. Three of those times I was protecting someone other than myself, two of them were complete strangers.

      2. “you don’t think it’s kinda nuts to think you need a gun to go down to the gas station or buy groceries?”

         1. You doing a very bad job of mind reading. You don’t get to decide what other people think.

         2. When someone is exercising a right, “need” never enters into the discussion. No one is under any obligation to provide you with any reason or “need”; or to seek your approval in any way.

         1. and I am sure you are part of a “well maintained militia” otherwise you should be required to provide a reason why you need to carry a weapon into a grocery store or elsewhere. You drop it and it can wound other people.

            1. In the real world, no one is required to provide a reason for the exercise of their rights whether you have an irrational belief that it is required or not, Marcus.

            2. Dropped guns don’t go off. But anti-gun people have no clue how guns work, and their displays of ignorance make any of their comments irrelevant.

            3. Modern firearms are drop safe. The only way they can go off when dropped is through a manufacturing defect or modification by someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing. As far as your “militia” comment goes, if you’re registered for Selective Service, you’re in the militia. Congratulations.

            4. https://www.guns.com/2013/12/31/moment-mans-gun-falls-holster-discharges-round-inside-restaurant-video/

               https://americablog.com/2013/02/wife-drops-gun-at-mcdonalds-accidentally-shoots-husband.html

               https://patch.com/florida/bloomingdale/3-injured-cracker-barrel-when-dropped-gun-fires

               As far as Selective Service…so much for well regulated. Nothing other than signing the paper. No training, no organization at all.

            5. Please cite the laws on the requirements for each of the two categories of the militia.

            6. Talking to a liberal is akin to explaining something to a rock. All they do is post asinine cites written by idiots for idiots.

            7. Read 10 USC 311 and get back to me on the bs militia line you are throwing out.

            8. grasping at straws. Stay with the 2nd amendment’s “well regulated” militia.

            9. Ok “I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.”
               — George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

            10. Just as I thought, a leftist too stupid to read what the actual laws say about the “well regulated militia”.

            11. No, Marcus. Simply explaining to you that your attempt to use “well regulated” is a false analogy. A well known and understood logical fallacy. “The people” in the 2nd Amendment are the same people as all of the other people in the Constitution.

            12. Only clinically insane fools who didnt pass basic english composition claim the dependent clause magically determines the meaning of a complex sentence for the first time in all of written english language history….

                You will be a famous dummy……

                But hey, since youre also too stupid to provide any proof that the BOR is a control upon the rights of the people instead of a control upon the powers of the government as it has always been since its ratification in 1791…it is clear you didnt even graduate high school…

            13. but hey…since you have to resort to personal attacks…

                it’s clear you think your right to carry should outweigh other people’s right to enjoy their lives. It’s ok to let these gun nuts keep getting guns, killing kids and nothing happening.

                nice that you worry about my education…too bad you don’t give a rat’s ass about other people’s lives..

            14. Youre the one acting like a moron, be proud of what you earned…

                Still waiting for you anti gunterds to provide one shred of proof its the lawful gun owners committing all the crimes….we are waiting moron…..

                The New York times gun report created in 2012 by anti gunterd editor of the NYTimes Joe Nocera, was
                created to embarrass gun owners. Funniest thing was, it was shuttered in 2013 because people started noting police reports on the comments section of each death and
                it turned out virtually all were criminals shooting criminals, and the 100 kids they listed, 97 lived in homes with criminals.

                When the times lists a 20 year old “child” shot and killed, and people with access to arrest records note that the “child” has five arrests for gang activity the NYT has a problem with its spinning.

                The first child death they covered in my state, a 4-year-old was living in the home where his mother was living with a boyfriend who had a prior murder conviction. He was high on crack and shot the kid by accident with his illegal gun.

                The NYT’s problem was what it really showed is almost all gun
                death is about criminal’s killing each other or homes with criminals being dangerous to other occupants. guns don’t elevate danger at all, criminals do.

                Why is it you arrogant anti gun terrorists cant provide any real
                govt. cites or data to prove this isnt true in any of the other 50 states eh….

            15. We are still waiting for you to prove the dependent clause now magically determines the meaning of a complex sentence just because of its position in the front, middle or end of a complex sentence, for the first time in written english history eh moron…..

                Why is it youre too fkkn stupid to provide any of that proof eh….

                Surely you can post just one example of a complex sentence rules from anytime in history and prove us wrong….

                Why is it not one single one of you trolls have ever done so sweety……

                See if youre too fkkn stupid to understand the simple basics of the english language and how sentence constructs determine the meanings of the words in those sentences, why should anyone listen to you, much less believe you ever graduated high school where such knowledge is required to GRADUATE….or is that your common core obamabagger pavement ape diploma of yours shining through eh sweety….

            16. Also tell us this tweedle dumb, does punishing the innocents magically force the criminals to stop committing crimes, yes or no sweety……..

            17. “well regulated” = well equipped, well trained
                “militia” = a defensive force made up of private citizens using their privately owned weapons.

            18. And where is all this “well trained”? Ammosexuals just want to get a gun and play GI Joe..and wait for the gov’t to fall or whatever other fantasies they have.

                Where is the training for these guys shooting unarmed people?

            19. Ammosexuals just want to get a gun and play GI Joe.

                While hoplophobes chimp out about gun death rates that are dramatically lower than they were 20 years ago.

            20. So you can provide irrefutable proof no violent crime witll occur outside the home even when all data proves 40% of violent crimes do occur outside the home, explain sweety….

            21. “I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.”
                — George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

            22. Marcus,
                I have a question for you. Would you go for hike in Alaska in Kodiak Bear country without a weapon? Note that any photo from those areas, women and men are armed, with a weapon in holster, in Walmart, gas station, and elsewhere, where wolves and bears are prevalent.
                Now in our cities, do you watch the Utube videos of car jackings, robberies committed at gas staiions, stores, and have you not seen the police inside convenience stores, with bad guys. We have bears and wolves within our borders, only they look like humans, and everyone else, until they commit their crimes.
                I hope you are never a victim to that happening to you or family, BUT IT DOES HAPPEN. All the folks coming to USA from other countries now, are not our friends. And we have home grown criminals, as always was true.
                Jails and Prisons are now opening doors and returning hardened criminals back on our streets. And if guns are banned, France and England are experiencing the knives now, as others are too.

      3. I am sure he as life insurance and auto insurance. I am also sure that he is not afraid of dying or getting in an auto accident every moment. That is how a sane person lives.

         1. Very good idea…let’s have gun owners have gun insurance!!!!

            1. The gun is the insurance.

               I am not sure you are capable of commenting on the internet. Perhaps you should stick with your coloring books.

            2. Since 97.3% of all killings by illegal use of a gun are committed by felons, career criminals, gang members, suiciders, crazies, domestic violence abusers and illegal aliens who arent lawful gun owners to begin with….

               Which forcing them to violate the 5th amendment by forcing those criminals to buy insurance….

               Which no single insurance underwriter will ever willingly write such an insurance policy for an intentional crime as that wiould implicate them in a crime as having aforementioned evidence of a crime to be committed…..

               We suggest if you want it, you should be the one to pay for it…

               See in the sane world, people pay for what they want, hence you anti gunterds want insurance, you pay for it, how is that not reasonable and common sense…

               That and it would be the first time in recorded history any single one of you anti gunterds paid any portion of your fair share for gun control…..as to date you have been selfish, immature little brats refusing to compromise in any fashion in negotiations, all you brats do is take, and take, and take, and take……

   2. Well then, we need to change the law. I have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and your desire to see armed citizens walking around is destroying that pursuit not to mention it seriously threatens my life and my ability to feel that I have the liberty to walk peacefully pretty much anywhere in the US.

      1. Truth be told, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness comes from the declaration of independence. The constitution does not enumerate those rights as protected.

         But let me indulge you: Your right to life is violated if someone kills you. There is a already a law against that. Your right to liberty is violated if someone falsely imprisons you or infringes on other rights. There is already a law against that. Your right to the pursuit of happiness is a little trickier. The fact remains that nobody is stopping you from walking away from someone that is carrying a weapon openly. It is, however, strange that you walk by people with concealed weapons on a regular basis but are not railing on that practice as well.

         1. Allow me to rail against those who consider it necessary to pack heat everywhere they go and conceal it from unsuspecting and potential victims of say accidental shootings. Opps, my bad said the woman whose gun toppled out of her purse at the doctors office and shot a patient in the hip. Gun falls out of manly holster and injures three at Hardy’s. . Even the police are accidentally shooting each. other Ya’ll put everyone in danger including yourself. .

            1. Then you should post yourself as gun free, and post the cancellation notices of your life, car, medical and car insurance as based on your claims, it is insane to be prepared for the worst case scenario eh…

               That and the several dozen court rulings that polie have no legal liability to protect the individual, see Warren vs D.C…….

            2. Wild eyed hysterical scenarios of a bewildered liberal. Guess you do not venture on a public highway which is definitely the most dangerous place in the USA maybe except for gun free Chicago.

      2. Than you need to relocate to North Korea where you will feel safe. Notice you posted pursuit lf happiness, there is no guarantee of finding it. Also a very wise man stated that to trade individual freedom for a false sense of security will get you neither. History has proven him correct time and time again.

      3. You are welcome to “seek” these things according to the Constitution, not to obtain them. They are goals, not rights. Hence the word “prusuit”, or didnt you notice that.

         As for your feelings (fears), you get to deal with those, not the other citizens of this country. After all, they are YOUR feelings, not anyone elses. There are programs that can help.

         I don’t fear the law abiding citizens of our nation, unlike the gun-grabbing liberals out there. I honestly don’t fear the criminal element either, I’m prepared for them. My mother, brothers, (don’t have any sisters), wife, and friends all know that I carry. Many of them carry as well, and we are comfortable together. Not to mention safe. Your problems are yours, please deal with them instead of projecting them on the rest of our society.

4. You have serious mental issues. Go lookup projection as that is what you are doing when you are speaking about “Whacks” in Colorado Springs. In reference to open carry of pistols, people do have a right to protect themselves, by carrying a weapon, as they see fit. It’s the law.

5. wait living by the river is illegal and people do it yet, you think banning guns and no one will do it!?

   1. They’re homeless. Where are they supposed to go?

      1. demokraps homes

      2. I don’t have private armed security. What am I suppose to do?

6. The OP has issues that can’t be cured by posting anything, His projections are a reflection of his inner weakness, he needs help.

7. Any reasonable person should assume that anyone carrying a long gun openly in a non hunting context is a mass murderer who has not yet started shooting and act accordingly.

   1. Nope. But you’ve provided a great example of how irrational gun control nuts are.

   2. Your definition of “Any reasonable person” would not hold up in court. “Any reasonable person” would be indifferent.

      1. Only if your definition or “reasonable person” is, “Another idiot with a gun.”

         1. The idiot is you.

   3. So you admit youre too stupid to discern the difference between open carry and bradishing….

      You should probably learn that before commenting again and making such a fool of yourself….

      While your at it, might want to post all those police arrest reports where actual criminals were caught open carrying a firearm…..we havent all millenia sweety….

   4. You are mentally ill.

8. The only “whack” with psychological problems in this story was the author. In the real world, people have rights. One of them is the right to own and carry a gun if they so choose. When exercising a right, no one is required to get permission from the “whack” that wrote this ignorant and biased editorial.

9. You’re far more likely to
   be attacked by one of those homeless people than you are to even see a killer
   like this, much less be a victim.

   1. I’m sure you meant to say “Attacks ON homeless people…”

      1. So youre homeless also, got it….

10. Isn’t it curious that open carry was never an issue before Obama became President? I’m sixty years old and I’ve never heard so many idiots clamoring for the “right” to make us more like a third world country. Walking around with a hand gun has NEVER been the norm for Americans. Toting a rifle into a coffee shop would have gotten you arrested during most of our history.
    Nope….this is all part of the Tea Party madness that infected our country because bigots became desperate to “take our country BACK!” from that colored boy. It’s a national disgrace and, as we’ve just seen, it gets innocent people killed. Shame on conservatives.

    1. retarded dumbass

    2. Funny how it was the norm up to the 1960’s, unless you lived in Russia….that explains it…

       1. Nope. Only in your Rambo fantasies. The only times in American history when it was considered appropriate for citizens to carry firearms were during the Revolutionary war, when we were under siege from the British, and during the Civil War, when we were fighting among ourselves.
          After the war to found the United States, handguns were a rarity and for the most part, only used in dueling. Rifles and shotguns were common, but the genteel citizens of the new Republic would have been shocked to see someone other than a soldier carting a rifle through the streets of Boston.
          As the country became more urban and more people moved off farms and into cities, even ownership of rifles became less common. A shopkeeper in town had no need to hunt for food or defend against aborigines. But weapons were still in regular use along the Western frontier (which at that time was Ohio). By the early 1800’s, many households did not contain firearms and in many that did, the guns were unusable due to lack of use or maintenance. (1)
          But in 1861 the nation tried to tear itself apart over slavery, and hundreds of thousands of Americans on both sides of the conflict came into possession of government-issued weapons; well-constructed, reliable guns. Five years later, an army of heavily armed ex-soldiers, many suffering from what we now call PTSD, found themselves unable to cope with the hustle and bustle of the revitalised American economy, and thus began our expansion into the West.
          And that is where the myth of the freedom-loving, gunslinging cowboy really begins. Starting with weekly “Wild West” magazines of the time and continuing through the golden years of Hollywood Westerns, we’ve been taught that cowboys ALWAYS carried their trusty six-shooters and were ready at the drop of a hat to draw down on some varmint, dealing justice in lead, if the need arose. (2) Except that most Western frontier towns had a strict ban on carrying guns inside the city limits. (3) The Gunfight at the OK Corral happened when the local marshall confronted a group of unruly cowboys who had disobeyed Tombstone’s ordinance against “open carry”. (4)
          Even during the two World Wars, most Americans didn’t walk the streets carrying weapons. Indeed, during the Second World War, after Pearl Harbor, there was a very real fear that we might have faced an invasion by the Japanese army. But citizens didn’t take their shotguns with them to the general store.
          Ordinary, everyday…sane Americans have never been so paranoid and misinformed as to believe they “needed” to take a gun with them everywhere they go. That’s a myth. A denial of our history as a peaceful people. This current fervor for the public display of weaponry is a sign of mental instability. And in the debate over sensible gun control, nearly everybody agrees that crazy people shouldn’t have guns.

          (1)-https://www.nytimes.com/books/00/09/10/reviews/000910.10willot.html
          (2)- https://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/mar/20/myth-of-the-cowboy
          (3)- https://www.yalelawjournal.org/article/firearm-localism
          (4)- https://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/23/nation/la-na-tombstone-20110123

          1. Sorry, you’re an anti gun advocates and they are all proven liars….so no proper govt cites or proof = you’re lying, typikal demokrap

             1. Oh shucks….
                Well, your concise and cogent rebuttal REALLY destroyed my statements. With just one word – “demokrap” – you completely disproved everything I wrote. Amazing! Pretty much put all those historians, libraries, newspapers, award-winning books and really…everything we know about history in it’s proper place. To wit: If it doesn’t support your opinion, it’s crap.

                Oh lardhead…what a little person you are. What a tiny, insignificant LITTLE person you really are.

                By the way, I’m not anti-gun. I’m anti-dumbass. I’m anti-basement-dwelling-twerp-with-a-gun who makes up tough sounding names for himself. I’m anti-gun bully. But I got nothing against guns. It’s people…really stupid people, that I hate.

             2. So you hate yourself, got it.

          2. Re writing history to fit you own rose tinted view?

          3. By the early 1800’s, many households did not contain firearms and in
             many that did, the guns were unusable due to lack of use or maintenance.
             (1)

             You’re actually citing the discredited “Arming America” as a source?

          4. Selective reading skills, you skipped over all those parts of the history in our country where the carrying of a firearm was common practice, both in town and out of. Sad for you, you missed the good parts.

             1. Please help me remember when Americans walked around armed all the time, other than during times of war or the immediate aftermath.

             2. Try reading a history book.

             3. If you would quit abusing the illicit narcotics you might be able to remember…..doubtful that will help but its worth a try….

    3. What world do you live in?

    4. All third world countries do not have general gun ownership. The soldiers/police of the dictator or local warlord are the only ones allowed to own/possess weapons. When ISIS takes over an area the first thing they do is disarm the population. Only ISIS soldiers are allowed to be armed.

       That’s for throwing the race card. You have confirmed that you are a neo-marxist dupe.

       “Evil always wins through the strength of its splendid dupes; and there has in all ages been a disastrous alliance between abnormal innocence and abnormal sin.”― G.K. Chesterton, Eugenics and Other Evils: An Argument Against the Scientifically Organized State

11. Still waiting for a logical argument to be presented by this piece…. So far my wait has been without reward…. Starting to wonder if the gun control crowd really doesn’t have a leg to stand on….

12. Sounds like the only whack job is the writer. I actually feel sorry for him. Running around scared of inanimate objects. Besides his butt is all puckered up with all those “whack jobs” running around wearing those inanimate objects. I think he would crap bricks if he was able to see all of the concealed inanimate objects.

13. This was written by an over-domesticated human. The dream of a Global Empire and Totalitarian control of a populous that polices itself is complete with this degenerate writer. If human dignity is so challenging there are plenty of countries easy to migrate to were your dreams have already come true. Please leave the dignity of America alone, London is waiting for you. Get lost.

14. Open-carry zones facilitate mass murderers.

    1. Actually Gun Free Zones facilitate mass murders.

       1. The expected response. For various reasons (let’s not rehearse them here), I’m skeptical about your assertion.

          Did you notice what I wrote, though? It seems to me the logic is at least as clear: allowing non-professionals to carry guns in public places (concealed or not, moreover), makes it impossible for the police to interfere with the plans of a killer until he makes his move. That much is pretty undebatable, isn’t it?

          1. The police are not here to protect you or anyone else. Your reference to the police being armed professionals is definitely questionable.Furthermore it’s none of the polices business who is or who is not armed. The police cannot even police themselves. You are responsible for your own safety and well being.

          2. allowing non-professionals to carry guns in public places

             Interesting because your fellow travelers have been calling these same “professionals” fascist, racist oppressors of the people for decades. Or is your main objection that they should be oppressing people you actually despise?

    2. Here is one of your safe gun free zones. Go live there.

       https://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings

       1. OK. You go live in the Congo. Fascinating discussion.

15. By the way, which one of you anti gun troglodytes can provide any police arrest reports of actual crimnals being caught open carrying?

    Surely you have some evidence to substantiate your inferred claims of not being able to tell criminals from law abiding citizens exercsing their rights….

    Do you anti gun trolls even know the difference between brandishing and lawful open carry….apparently not, then again with all anti gun troglodytes and eloi having less than 0 IQ you wouldnt know that, my bad…..

16. You need to see a head shrinker as you have an irrational fear of inanimate objects.

17. It all comes down to how you view the rest of the population. If you see all those anonymous people out there as nascent criminals just looking for their next ‘score’, you’ll (naturally) want to suppress gun ownership. If they have to hold you up with a knife or a cudgel, you’ll probably survive the encounter and only lose your possessions.

    But if you see the rest of humanity as a sea of mostly good people just trying to do their best as they go about their business, you’ll probably be for more gun ownership or, at the absolute worst, against making things harder.

    Now, my view is that good people outnumber bad people by a wide margin: 20-to-1 is the bare minimum I would admit as an estimate; it’s probably more like 500-to-1. I wouldn’t be bothered if -everyone- had a gun because I don’t believe any but the smallest fraction of them will ever present a threat to me or mine, and when they do, I expect I’ll have lots of help defending against unlawful activity.

    L. Neil Smith wrote an essay on why he casts his votes strictly on the basis of how a politician votes on the 2nd amendment, because how a politician sees -you- tells you everything you need to know about that politician. How that politician sees the rest of the world informs hir views on guns equally as well as it informs us about the politician.

    So it all comes down to -you-. Do you think the world is a dangerous place filled with enemies who wish to harm you? Or do you see it as a community filled with neighbors within which hides the occasional stinker? How you view guns tells me everything I need to know about what you think of me.

18. It’s a fundamental, individual, natural RIGHT endowed to each of us upon our creation and is NOT subject to the 2nd Amendment for its existence.

    The Supreme Court has already stipulated that in the Heller v. D.C. opinion, June 2008.

    They then further “incorporated” the RIGHT “against the states” in the McDonald v. Chicago opinion, June 2010.

    16Am Jur 2d., Sec. 117: “”Various facts of circumstances extrinsic to the constitution are often resorted to, by the courts, to aid them in determining its meaning, as previously noted however, such extrinsic aids may not be resorted to where the provision in the question is clear and unambiguous in such a case the courts must apply the terms of the constitution as written and they are NOT at liberty to search for meanings BEYOND THE INSTRUMENT.” [emphasis mine]

    Marbury v. Madison, 5 US 137: “The Constitution of these U.S. is the supreme law of the land. Any law that is repugnant to the constitution is null and void of law.”

    Murdock v Penn, 319 US 105:(1943) “No state shall convert a liberty into a privilege, license it and attach a fee to it.”

    Shuttlesworth v. Birmingham, 373 US 262:(1962) “If the state converts a liberty into a privilege, the citizen can engage in the right with impunity.”

    Miranda v. Arizona, 384 US 436: “Where rights secured by the constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them.”

    Norton v Shelby County, 118 US 425: “An unconstitutional act is not law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; affords no protection; it creates no office; it is in legal contemplation, as inoperative as though it had never passed.”

    Jones v. Counce 7-F3d-1359-8th cir 1993; Benitez v. Wolff 985-F3d 662 2nd Cir 1993: “Qualified immunity defense fails if public officer violates clearly established right because a reasonably competent official should know the law governing his conduct.”

    Owens v. Independence 100 S.C.T. 1398: “Officers of the court have no immunity, when violating a Constitutional right, from liability, for they are deemed to know the law.”

    Boyd v. US, H6 US 616: “The court is to protect against any encroachment of constitutionally secured liberty.”

    18 USC Sections 241, 242
    42 USC Sections 1983, 1985, 1986

    And, we can use the 14th Amendment to pierce any public officer’s customary “qualified immunity.”

    So F. off!

19. The hard-left Marxist and Islamists who infect our federal government plus the MSM media prostitutes who protect them will
    gleefully lie, falsify, fabricate, slander, libel, deceive, delude, bribe, and treasonably betray the free citizens of the United States..

    Second Amendment foes lying about gun control – The Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting. The Second Amendment has nothing to do with personal self-defense.Firearms are our constitutionally mandated safeguard against tyranny by a powerful federal government. Only dictators, tyrants, despots, totalitarians, and those who want to control and ultimately to enslave you support gun control.

    No matter what any president, senator, congressman, or hard-left mainstream media prostitutes tell you concerning the statist utopian fantasy of safety and security through further gun control: They are lying. If their lips are moving, they are lying about gun control. These despots truly hate America..

    These tyrants hate freedom, liberty, personal responsibility, and private property. But the reality is that our citizens’ ownership of firearms serves as a concrete deterrent against despotism. They are demanding to hold the absolute power of life and death over you and your family. Ask the six million Jewws, and the other five million murdered martyrs who perished in the Nazi death camps, how being disarmed by a powerful tyranny ended any chances of fighting back. Ask the murdered martyrs of the Warsaw Ghetto about gun control.

    Their single agenda is to control you after you are disarmed. When the people who want to control you hold the absolute power of life and death over your family, you have been enslaved. The hard-left Marxist and Islamists who infect our federal government plus the MSM media presstitutes who protect them will gleefully lie, falsify, fabricate, slander, libel, deceive, delude, bribe, and treasonably betray the free citizens of the United States into becoming an unarmed population. Unarmed populations have been treated as slaves and chattel since the dawn of history.

    Will we stand our ground, maintaining our constitutionally guaranteed Second Amendment rights, fighting those who would enslave us?

    American Thinker

20. Hahaha. Those mean and big scary guns! Do you want some cheese with that whine Dave Perry?

    Better not call the police either Dave, they have scary guns! Better you just hide and run!

    I pray you are never faced with a violent attacker, but you sure as heck will want a gun if you ever need to defend yourself!

21. Not to mention, Aurora is definitely a place where you need a gun! Don’t you remember in May, when an armed Aurora man defended himself from armed criminals: https://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/05/30/triple-shooting-in-aurora-leaves-1-dead-1-critical/

22. Re: “still insist that allowing people to openly carry guns in metropolitan cities filled with all kinds of whacks is a good idea”

    There are a lot of people who don’t like guns and many of them are in a position of power to do something about it. As an example a fairly common occurrence is when a person accidentally exposes a legally concealed firearm while bending over or snagging a coat, etc and someone that doesn’t like guns observes it and calls the police. In a lot of these places concealed carry is legal but open carry is not and because of that ambiguity the person may or may not be arrested depending on the discretion of the police officer. An officer aligned with an anti-gun agenda could consider that incident a violation of the open carry law or brandishing a firearm while an officer who isn’t aligned might not. It’s unfortunate there are enough anti-gun zealots around who look for any opportunity to challenge or embarrass a licensed concealed carry gun owner and having an open carry policy is the only way I see to remove the ambiguity of what’s defined as concealed.

23. Re: “despite yet another three innocents dead among the tens of thousands this year”

    According to the CDC in 2013 there were about 11208 people murdered by firearms in the US which works out to about 31 people per day. These are the “word doctored” figures the news media and anti-gun folks like to publicize because people relate to the magnitude of those numbers and it sounds like a lot of people until you realize this is out of a population of 319 million Americans. In that context, it works out to about 1 person out of every 28,000 people being murdered by a firearm. Dwell on the magnitude of your individual significance next time you are in a stadium with 28,000 people. To me, 1 in 28,000 is an acceptable cost to help ensure the security of a free state and the right to own a firearm that has harmed no one. It is also estimated there are 70 million gun owners in the US which means on any given day 69,999,969 gun owners didn’t kill anyone yet because the news media magnifies these relatively isolated and infrequent events to the level of an epidemic, the anti-gun folks answer is to take the guns away from people who harmed no one. The number of homicides with a firearm will never be zero. So given the fact that deranged individuals and murderers are an intrinsic part of the human race and we currently live in a free society, what number would ever satisfy you to the point you would say “we don’t need any more restrictions on the private ownership of firearms”?

24. So in order for someone to exercise a Second Amendment right to bear arms for self defense, they have to pay hundreds of dollars out of pocket and wait months for their county to issue them a permit? There isn’t a single other Constitutional right that is withheld until citizens pay hundreds of dollars. Hell, people get angry over asking someone to pay $20 to purchase a voter ID… If Open Carry is made illegal, who will take responsibility for Coloradans victimized or even killed while waiting for their permit? The author? The politicians who want to repeal open carry?

    1. Gun laws were started by demoncrats to keep weapons out of the hands of blacks. Since a large percentage of black people are poor due to progressive liberal policies, these fees continue that progressive liberal tradition.

25. Re: “Because If the fuzzy principle you’re fighting for is killing you, you’re just pathetic”

    Nice example of Saul Alinksy’s rule number 5

    ”But if your misguided principle is killing me, you’re done. You’re scaring me”

    You might want to check out the symptoms of anxiety disorders on page 189 in the latest DSM manual (DSM 5) and decide if treatment or therapy is warranted for your apparent phobia related to firearms.

26. I love the way you lump legal open carry to a crack head who walks out of his house and starts shooting people who he head crackhead beef with plus one bicyclist. Why not apply that logic and cunning to Chicago where 14 people shot
    /died this week. Where there is no open carry…. Not even a gun store.

27. LOL, Dave. I’m afraid you’re the once coming across as “unhinged” and “cowardly” here. Sheesh, stop peeing your pants every time you lay eyes on a gun. It’s embarrassing.

28. Saw an interesting fact today. Dogs with guns have shot more people than ‘good guys with guns’ have prevented mass shootings in the US since 2007.

    1. So how many gun free zones did the lawful gun owners violate the law and carry anyway moron….

       1. Hello

    2. Cure your ignorance:

       https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/10-potential-mass-shootings-that-were-stopped-by-someone-wit#.qlMoxrXg1q

29. What is more scary is that there are actually medical doctors and psychiatrists prescribing psychotropic drugs to these unbalanced people causing them to go violent on others. Psychiatrists and these other medical quacks should be outlawed and imprisoned.

30. “Hypocritical city lawmakers jumped at the chance to outlaw open carry inside city hall, but they won’t offer the same courtesy and sense of safety to the rest of the city by outlawing open carry everywhere in Aurora, like Denver does. “:
    Such a law would actually violate the Colorado constitution. Denver got a judge to violate the state constitution. But I have a feeling that you don’t care about things like constitutions.

31. Gee. I’m sorry you are such a pu$$y that you pee yourself whenever you see someone exercising rights you don’t agree with. Move to a leftist country and stop being a controlling authoritarian a$$hole.

32. What is interesting is the argument/perception that legal and lawfully armed citizens are somehow a public threat. Are they? Or are they, have they been an asset to protect?

    When accurate peer reviewed (rare for anti-gun data) honest data is scrutinized, it appears armed citizens shoot more criminals that law enforcement. It also appears armed citizens shoot less innocent bystanders than police.

    Scrutinized further, citizens who paid their poll tax to fight tyranny and obtained a carry “permit” to exercise a fundamental right are model citizens. They have lower crime rates than the rest of the society and get this lower than even “trained/certified police”. Both are very low though.

    So the dumbass emoting above on his feelings is more likely to be shot or have a crime committed AGAINST him by a police officer than a vetted “permit” holder exercising a right.

    And it’s true! But by all means continue to emote your feelings…

33. How many columns and articles has Dave written over past 7 years, and he still expects a different result. As long as his hero, Obama is in office, both of them will keep harping on this subject, to keep attention away from more important issues, that really do need solution. But neither one of them know what the issues are, and have no solutions. Wonder what they will do with rest of their lives, when this issue goes away.
    Everyone I know who owns guns and ammo, are pretty normal folks. It is the crazy eyed ones to get all choked up, run and scream, in circles that give me the willies.

34. We should outlaw concealed carry.
    Open carry should be the only legal option.
    Be proud when you carry a gun.

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