State Rep. Rhonda Fields: I can’t breathe

1. And what, Ms. Fields, is justice?

   Is it just that a man who does not not comply with lawful orders and attempts to attack a policeman, is killed by that policeman?

   Is it just that a cigarette tax should be so important to a city that a man is killed by what would normally be a submission technique, not a death grip?

   What justice do you seek? A justice system where evidence and facts are disregarded by a grand jury? A system where a man is either absolved or condemned only because of his skin color?

   What good will having dialogue and discussions do if you do not have an end goal? Is your purpose to reduce crime, reduce incarceration, change the system (into what?), improve relations between cops and citizens, or changing the tactics of cops upon suspects?

   1. Garner did not attack any police officers, you are a joke. The choke hold has proven to be a death grip, that is why it is banned for use by the NYPD and most police forces.

      We currently live in a system where evidence and facts are disregarded when a police officer is in front of the grand jury. What we should all seek is that ALL evidence is able to be presented to a jury in a criminal trial when there is even the slightest doubt of someones innocence. That is the way it works for civilians, unfortunately that is not the way it works for police, this is understandable because the DA must work closely with police. Cronyism at its worst. Bad cops should stand trial.

      Please attend this meeting and find out what kind of resolution we all should be seeking.
      Representative Field’s job is to put forth an agenda in support of her constituents. Right now those constituents are protesting, it is her job to listen to their problems and help create solutions.

      1. Garner did not die because of the choke hold. Read the facts of that arrest. He died in the ambulance, on the gurney, an hour or more after the arrest, of heart attack.. He was not arrested for selling cigarettes either. He had been consistently warned about selling, in front of stores who paid for permits and fees, to sell tobacco to adults, 21 and older. Garner was selling single cigarettes to 18-21 year old, who also bought for younger children, so NY State upped age from 18 to 21, and added $4.50 tax per pack to slow the selling. NYC added city tax of 75cents to that, and collected the fees and charges for permits. Garners did not even live in that precinct but in neighboring one. (Think they call them Burroughs in NY)

         1. Uh, no. He died of a combination of a chokehold, compression of his chest, and poor health (see link). But you’re right. Definitely need to have six cops jump and kill him for selling illegal ciggies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner

            1. Yeah. You believe the newspapers. Really. I watched the trials and discussion on television, with the detectives, police, witnesses, and actual testimony. Not the trumped up news reporting by the democratic and liberal media. If you believe the NYC papers, then you really must look forward to the Baltimore papers and their lying leadership. Police really ganged up on all those blacks in Baltimore, just like the police were injured, and one almost killed in Denver, protecting the high school kids who did not read the court proceedings, and demonstrated, walking and laying down in the streets. Really, Retiree. If you believe that was right, I am glad I did not serve in any unit you did, or where ever you worked in your life. Or are you faking the retiree bit, as so many others do? We have so many fake medal of honor winners, while I know the Medal of Honor, is awarded. Not won. But you would not doubt a politician, now would you? Or like the guy who was VFW post commander on western slope, who never served in military. He was outed for getting VA surgery, he was not entitled to, and that outed him as a fake military veterans too.

            2. Oh, and by the way, that was a black, female, police sergeant in charge of that detail, and Eric Garner was a definite target that day. Had been arrested 30 plus times for same smuggling and selling of loose cigarettes to young folks too young to buy tobacco.
               But you blame the police for doing their job. When he struggled and resisted arrest, you would have preferred they just stand back and have target practice. They were directed to arrest him. So their job hung on completing that, or guess you would have preferred they resign, and go on public assistance? Is that not mob rule, or anarchy if anyone, can do what anyone wants to? Please elucidate your solution.

      2. ezaspie
         Medical experts from the Canadian Police Research Centre’s “National Study on Neck Restraints in Policing” wrote: “While no restraint methodology is completely risk free, there is no medical reason to expect grievous bodily harm or death following the correct application of the vascular neck restraint in the general public by professional police officers with standardized training and technique.”

         Board-certified emergency medicine physician Dr. John Pi is currently an associate clinical professor at UCLA’s School of Medicine as well as the tactical medical director for the Los Angeles Tactical Medical Program and a 14-year veteran agent of the FBI. So he knows both law enforcement and medicine. And he has this opinion about vascular neck restraints. “When properly applied, BVR (bi-lateral vascular restraint) is effective and safe and can minimize injuries to subjects, bystanders, and officers,” he says.

         with that being said i have still not seen one MMA fight that ended by this Death grip you speak of die. oh yeah its also used in the Olympics in Judo just saying

         So ezaspie you are a joke for not knowing what you are talking about.
         the main problem is people breaking the law. stop breaking the law its simple. my next questions is have you read the evidence reports at all or are you just going by what the spin media is saying. all the evidence presented goes against your hands up dont shot and that this was a death choke statements.

         1. Sorry nice try, the man was sick and there was no cause to use a choke hold, a move that was banned by police procedure. Do all the Canadian research you want. The fact is, if he wasn’t put into a choke hold that day, HE WOULDN’T HAVE DIED!!! No one should die because they are selling cigarettes on the street, legal or not. All the cops had to do was have better police training to handle the situation better.

            1. so how many 300 lbs man have you tried to detain? and maybe you should be mad at the city for making a tax so important that the cops have to go out an enforce that. I seem to find a trend here. if these people didnt breaking the law they would most like not have ended up in this situation. with that being said i have still not seen one MMA fight that ended by this Death grip you speak of die. oh yeah its also used in the Olympics in Judo just saying

               With a medical degree from Columbia and a bachelor’s degree from Yale, Dr. Charlie
               Dr. Charlie cited a few studies to explain what happens next. One study found that “ of the RNC can completely (close) the carotid and that the degree of compression depended more upon the direction of the force rather than its magnitude.” The same study found, “When the choke was applied correctly, and low on the neck, that the vertebral arteries were also significantly compressed.” Remember these are the arteries that provide blood to the brain, and all are affected.

               Another study measured the heart rates, rate change of blood pressure, and blood flow through the carotids of 24 healthy police officers (27-40 years old, 21 male, 3 female) while they experienced the RNC, which he also refers to as “bilateral carotid compression.”

               “16 of the 24 officers lost consciousness in 7-10 seconds with only 84% compression of the carotids. Four tapped out before unconsciousness and four managed to maintain consciousness – but had significantly less carotid compression.” And Dr. Charlie noted that, “All subjects regained consciousness without any lasting deficit or injury.”

            2. ezaspie, You still will not give up. Since you are so incensed by this, and keep arguing, even when evidence and others point it out, why don’t you take on the project of meeting with all young blacks, and discussing with them and their momma, that in future if policeman (or any official) says stop. THEY SHOULD STOP. Garner had been arrested 30 times in preceding period over the selling of loose cigarettes, and making an ass of himself in neighboring area to where he lived. His family also stated that, while telling what a wonderful father, peaceful, and kind he was. That police detail was sent there that day over another incident, but I suspect Garner being there was also indicated. Guessing, since he seemed to live on that area. So just how sick was he, since asthma and obese people go to work every day, if they have a job. Problems like demonstrators walking on American Flag in Georgia State College, where they were angry over slavery, Garner, Brown, and Martin were all created by blacks being arrested or detained, and with them resisting arrest or running away (which is also resisting arrest). So I am sure, with your feelings, you can get through to them: Behave, don’t cause a problem, and if you do, then stand still, put hands behind back, and get cuffs put on, take a ride to booking area TELL IT TO THE JUDGE. Life is lot simpler for all of us, that way. And nobodies civil rights get tromped on.————As for Rhonda, I would suggest she read the grand jury and court releases, of accurate, true, evidence and witnesses who really did see what happened. Not those who were telling 2nd or 3d person story.

            3. Ok Frank your right, cops shouldn’t have to follow police procedure and they should be able to kill at will unimpeded.

            4. For chokehold to kill, neck vertebra would have to be dislodged, or vertebra separated from each other, breaking the nerve trunk running through there.

            5. Your right Frank, police should be immune to their own police policies. Cops should face 0 consequences ever, your right.

            6. Read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner

            7. I read that before when it happened. Are you a slow reader, or just now find time to reply to what I wrote long ago. I have not changed my mind, and I have also had a policeman here in Aurora tell me that” You have to learn to live with these people”. He was white, and the guy he was referring to was young black (26 years old, had 6 children by 4 different women he never married, lived with his mother in house catty-cornered to me on other side of street). He was standing at my driveway end, threatening to kill me, my tenant to lived next door to me, and the young white woman across the street, married to a black soldier who was off training to work on Sherman tanks). All because his kids broke into the woman’s storage shed in backyard for the 4th or 5th time, and she had talked to his mother, to get to stop. (added edit: By the way, Dawn had come over to tell me and Tony, about this while crying, when he showed up. yelling and screaming at top of his voice, later moving down street and yelling, so everyone came out of houses.
               ——- Just a normal night in Aurora, in those days——————
               He was our neighborhood drug salesman, selling small paper pokes (paper sacks to you) by taking small paper poke inside house, when young fellow wheeled up, on bicycle and set it by door, rang door bell and left. Come back and get the small poke, that hand had reached out door and exchanged. Police arrested him 15 times in 4 years (3 times on mother’s complaint).
               Back to his threat. My tenant called his ex-wife who had married Aurora Police Detective. Black Sgt (female) police officer came, sat in my house, took statement, and 2 months later, the judge in municipal court, Aurora, explained to him, how he was going to jail, (had peace bond of 60 days) if he even looked at me, said anything to me, or yelled anything as I drove past. He would go to jail, then judge would bring him back, and see how much more time he would get, and where.
               Mother sold house, and I watched papers to see if he tangled with anyone after that who might take him out of this world. Not that I wanted or prayed for it. But he does need to learn discipline, and change his habits. Certainly kept our few blocks around here exciting for a time. Only time we had peace was when he was arrested (15 times, had I mentioned that?) .
               But glad you asked. And those two policeman who first came were white, and did not shoot him.

         2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner

2. If you’re really choking, or can’t breathe, you can’t talk either! Maybe if you’d shut up and silently go away we’d believe you and your anarchist friends.

3. Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Eric Garner all 3 got justice. Read the Grand Jury reports when the real witnesses testified, not the sham ones who stood in front of microphones and cameras immediately after shooting – next two days. Attorneys standing beside each of those, who lied through the teeth and inflamed the watchers.
   Trayvon Martin was visiting in housing complex with his father, from Miami that night in Sanford. He left house in rain, went to 7-11 store, seen on store video, and was not the 14 year old boy shown on TV. Dwadled on way from store, back through housing, looking into patio doors and windows, with his candy and drink, looking for cough syrup needed to make Dank (teenager alcoholic drink). Seen as dark figure on unlit side of housing by George Zimmerman, on way to store for lunches next week. And got shot when he attacked George, breaking his nose, and blinding him, then holding arms to sides while pounding head into sidewalk. Should never attack someone, with a gun.—————- Michael Brown was see at Liquor store at 1:16 AM that morning, then met Johnson at 7AM, after being refused sale of alcohol as seen getting into a car. Then next store video shows him stealing cigarellos, attacking shop employee, and witnesses – gun evidence- blood evidence in police vehicle shows he did attack Officer Wilson in car, blood trail showed he did run, but then reversed and charged Officer. Bad mistake, but Officer followed police protocol and shot him. READ THE 4700 PLUS PAGES OF GRAND JURY REPORT. Documented, signed, sealed St. Louis County, Mo. Posted on NY Times in full.
   ———————————- Eric Garner was not arrested for selling Cigarettes. State of NY passed change in law concerning tobacco that year. Had been able to buy tobacco products including e-cigarettes at age 18 and up. Changed to 21 and up for tobacco products. Shop owners paid $300 to $400 for permits to sell. Garner had been selling single sales and warned over 3 years, with shops complaining to police, council, and state enforcement. As his widow said, he would not stop selling. ———-
   Reason was 18 to 21 year old kids bought tobacco and sold or gave to 10 through 18 years of age, and NY , especially city had really high cancer and other disease expenses for health, hospital, doctors, AND WITH THAT CHANGE IN LAW, TAXES HIGH, SMOKING DECREASED FROM 18% TO 13% IN THAT YEAR.—————-
   Garner by smuggling and selling Black Market tobacco products to all comers was adding to health hazards and future expense they city and state tried to decrease.
   HE RESISTED ARREST THAT DAY, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THAT TAKE-DOWN BY THOSE OFFICERS, YOU WILL SEE THE ARM GO OVER GARNER’S SHOULDER WITH HAND ON HIS CHEST. NOT AROUND HIS THROAT. And when he was down on sidewalk, yelling he could not breathe, he was loud and yelled many times. There was no arm or hands close to his throat at that time. And being a large man, testimony and video show they had trouble getting him on gurney and keeping him on it. Within the next hour, in the ambulance he had heart attack and died. ———————- BEST WAY TO AVOID THESE IN FUTURE, IS STAY IN SCHOOL, LEARN TO READ, THEN READ THE JURY OR OTHER REPORTS. AND BY ALL MEANS KEEP THE FLORIDA ATTORNEYS FROM MAKING THE DEATH OF EVERY BLACK PERSON INTO A CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATION. Wait for the evidence to be accumulated, and made into reports. And Prosecute the ambulance chasers in the National Bar Association. I believe in American Bar Association attorneys, who practice law as written, follow the Constitution, and Bill of Rights. NBA mission is Civil Rights violation cases, as seen in their mission statement, with only black attorneys.

   1. Wow, you sure have a lot of time on your hands!

      1. I learned in military to research and know what I was doing, saying, writing was as correct as possible. As enlisted SSgt (E5) I managed programs much above my pay grade, with Colonels commending me for knowing the answers and I could be relied on to tell them the facts. Reason I was declared essential to base for first 2 years in service, and did not learn about that until 3rd year, when transferred to Wing Central Personnel Office. Asked why I had not shipped to Korea , before I got married, as I had volunteered.
         Went from my Sergeant, to Lt., to Major, and we all went to Col. Chamberlain, and asked. Colonel pulled secret file out of drawer in his office, and informed us. By then I had been promoted from Private, to PFC, CPL, SGT in first year, and SSgt the next.
         Now retired, at 86 in November, I still have not lost my habits, and I stay involved with our Colorado delegation, though not as close to Democrats, as few years ago. Republicans are approachable, even inviting me to their homes, and serving on their advisory panels. Democrats already have their minds made up, and they know what is best for all of us, though they have never done it, and many of them were hindrances to me in my military service, and since.
         Now health keeps me close to home, with my two computers, and all my past files which I am not screening and running through my confetti maker. But I still get out among them. If you had attended Heather-Garden townhouse meeting in June 2015, you would have seen Rep. Bob Beauprez come from behind the podium after recognizing me during his speech, and with his wife and he, giving me 3-way hug and hand shake, in front of the 70-80 plus seniors there that day. My wife got 3 way hug from them too.
         About 30 minutes later Rep. Tom Tancredo was there, to speak, and he also greeted me in opening speech, by “thumbs up, and saying Hi-Buddy”, then completing his speech. And Wife and I both got 3 way hug from him, also.
         After retiring and moving back to Aurora home, I have stayed active in retired-veteran-senior problems and issues. And intend to continue, though younger troops and folks don’t appreciate us old-timers giving them our experience. So they will make the same mistakes, you and I made in our youth.
         AND ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, I BELIEVE IN EDUCATION. I HAVE TAUGHT BLACKS, WHITES, MEXICANS, CANADIANS, GREEKS, TURKS, REGULAR MILITARY, AIR NATIONAL GUARD, AND EVEN CIVILIAN CLASSES.
         I FOUND NO DIFFERENCE IN LEARNING, WHEN STUDENT WANTED TO LEARN, AND MATERIAL WAS PRESENTED IN A LEARNING ATMOSPHERE.
         Can’t type as fast or accurate as when I left service in 1976, but I was tested at Pitkin at 120 wpm on IBM on 5 minute test then , with no errors. In military, DCA-PAC, I typed on 5 different keyboards, including orderwire teletypewriters, and staff at CNO, asked one night what kind of tape cutter I was using. Would not believe I was free hand typing it, standing up. Encrypted, secured, dedicated circuit, as all of ours were. Not bragging, just stating a fact. I look back with pride on my career of 26 years 18 days. I have no reason to feel bad about collecting my meager pensions.

         1. TL;DR

   2. Justice is meted out by the courts, not by the police on the street.

4. Rhonda Fields: It would help if minority mothers would teach their young males about staying in school, studying, and graduating. They would then know how to read citations, arrest records, and in all cases cited, the young black man (and Eric Garner) was resisting arrest for their actions. Martin (Florida) was loitering outside apartment windows, in the rain, as unknown person in that facility. Brown attacked Officer Wilson as seen on photos (inside police vehicle, on uniform, gun) and re-attacking when shot. Eric Garner had been selling single cigarettes in front of stores, who had permits and fees they had to pay for, at high cost to them. NY state and NYC had high medical costs for tobacco smoking, changed law to sell only to 21 years age, and up. Store owners had been complaining to council, police, and taxing offices. Eric Garner was warned repeatedly, and was arrested that day for disobeying verbal and written warnings. He did not die because of a choke hold. He died hour or more later, on the gurney, in the ambulance of heart attack. NOW IF THOSE WHO DEMONSTRATED IN THESE CASES (ENDANGERING OTHERS) HAD SIMPLY READ THE COURT REPORTS, THE GRAND JURY REPORTS, ALL ARRESTS, SHOOTINGS, DEATHS WERE PROPER UNDER OUR LAWS. Mothers need to teach children that Police are friends, will give help, but ARE TO BE RESPECTED WHEN THEY GIVE ORDERS. And it will help when Blacks quit killing Blacks. Your son and fiancé should not have been shot, but were, as witnesses to a crime committed by Blacks, which was gang related. And this Governor is weak and inept. I lost all respect for him, same as for president (as individuals).

5. Confronting racism is not a weakness. If you deny it exists, you are part of the problem.

   “Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right.”

   1. So confront where the racism is coming from. This president established that when he said, “I don’t look like you, I have a funny name” , and our vice president introduced him as: “He is clean, he talks good”. And it has been down hill from there. DOJ before, and now, have not changed the habits of their department. So ball is in your court.

      1. You are demented if you believe the President and DOJ are responsible for present-day racism. Your way of thinking is going the way of all the other dinosaurs- extinct, except for a few museum pieces we keep around to gawk at.

         1. You are an axx. I know how I felt in 2008 and all the years before. And I bought his books, and books about him (about 12 total) starting in 2006. His whole life has been predicated to racism, and if you don’t see that or accept that, you need to talk to your doctors. You have a terrible case of ‘stuck on stupid’ and will not try to get off it.
            And I have had and still have friends of all races, religions, beliefs, and accept them, except for the crap imbedded in the policies of this administration. Even have many of them in my family tree now, or in the past. So suck lemons, to sweeten your personality.

            1. Sure enough, Uncle GrandPa. Sorry it hurts so much to see our country evolve,

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